Transit T350 2.4TDCI 103kw AWD 2010 doesn't fire up, no fault codes.

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qhad
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:39 pm
Vehicle: Transit 140 T350 AWD Trend -09 (2.4TDCI, 103kw)

Transit T350 2.4TDCI 103kw AWD 2010 doesn't fire up, no fault codes.

Post by qhad » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:19 am

Hi - I have a major problems with Transit, basically it will fire up quite good as cold but if I turn engine off right away let's say after one minute of cold start and try to start up it again, it just don't fire up. We have tried to fix it within two months by now. Car has now 125tkm on clock.

- Injectors has been tested on Bosch service, seems to be good
- New CR-pump has been installed
- New batteries has been installed

With Forscan I have logged RPM, BplusVolt, IAT,IAT2,CHT,FRP Volt,FRP_DSD,FRPkpa,FRTcTemp,FRT_V,PCMID_C,PP_LRN_VAL.
- How much RPM has to be ECU to trying to start engine? Now it shows between 230 and 280rpm when it doesn't fire up
- FRP_DSD(rail pressure desired) is 36625kPa on start. On start spike FRP is between 44000-48000kPa and it decrease down to 25000kPa after one second of firing up(and stays there). Is this a normal behaviour?

Please give me some ideas :cry: :cry: :cry:

f-wolf
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:41 am
Vehicle: Ford XR6 Turbo BA MK II 6 Speed Manual

Re: Transit T350 2.4TDCI 103kw AWD 2010 doesn't fire up, no fault codes.

Post by f-wolf » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:20 pm

Hi there

Looking at Your Pressure readings ... Those readings are much too low !!

*** Typical working pressure on a common rail system is about 1600 to 1800 bar, or 23,000 to 26,000 psi.


PSI-KP.jpg
PSI-KP.jpg (10.64 KiB) Viewed 643 times
https://www.google.com.au/search?ei=yRw ... V2OZGeP1hk


UNDERSTANDING TYPICAL PROBLEMS OF COMMON RAIL FUEL SYSTEMS

https://www.dieselworldmag.com/diesel-t ... l-systems/


Pressure Conversion Chart
Pressure.jpg
Pressure.jpg (70.39 KiB) Viewed 647 times


I would say there is a problem with the PCV ( Pressure Control Valve ) ... and or RPS ( Rail Pressure Sensor )

Common Rail Injection System Pressure Control

https://www.dieselnet.com/tech/diesel_f ... .php#valve

qhad
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:39 pm
Vehicle: Transit 140 T350 AWD Trend -09 (2.4TDCI, 103kw)

Re: Transit T350 2.4TDCI 103kw AWD 2010 doesn't fire up, no fault codes.

Post by qhad » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:35 pm

Hi t-wolf, what do you think about how about desired value (rail pressure desired) which are coming from as static map of ecu? It's 36625 on start so about 400bar. If it should be 1600bar on start, ecu will ask really too low pressure.

Also we just changed also RPS, It didn't help. As far as know PCV is a part of CR-pump here and I was a first part which we changed to totally new one.

Donny
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 9:00 pm
Vehicle: Focus 1.6 Tdci 201071QP67

Re: Transit T350 2.4TDCI 103kw AWD 2010 doesn't fire up, no fault codes.

Post by Donny » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:52 pm

I don't know what your figures should be but you are unlikely to see FRP figures of over 1000 Bar with the Van stationary, even if you rev it hard. With the vehicle moving under load the pressure can go over 1500 Bar under acceleration.

I think your problem is an air starvation one. If your engine has an Anti Shudder Valve (Throttle Valve) in the Throttle Body near the Inlet Manifold then it could be sticking closed under certain circumstances. This is a common cause of starting problems with Diesel engines.

The one on my car is operated electronically and can be monitered by FORScan, but your one may be vacuum operated and I'm not sure if FORScan can moniter it.

The next time the starting problem occures if you tap the Throttle Body it should free the valve if it is stuck, and the engine will start instantly.

If your engine has Swirl Flaps they could also be faulty, othewise there may be some other physical obstruction in the Air Intake system.

There could also be air in the fuel, but I doubt it and presume that you have already checked that out.

Good luck

denbo
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:00 pm
Vehicle: ford focus 16 zetec

Re: Transit T350 2.4TDCI 103kw AWD 2010 doesn't fire up, no fault codes.

Post by denbo » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:11 pm

Check the E.C.T. sensor.

qhad
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:39 pm
Vehicle: Transit 140 T350 AWD Trend -09 (2.4TDCI, 103kw)

Re: Transit T350 2.4TDCI 103kw AWD 2010 doesn't fire up, no fault codes.

Post by qhad » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:22 am

Hi everyone, little update, still struggling with this problem :( Van has been now on second work shop which is authorized Ford dealer, even them hasn't found what is wrong with this vehicle. I took it for drive for this weekend to test and monitor it a more by myself. Problem occurs now also with cold engine, it might get almost 20 minutes to get engine running - it just suddenly fires up after several dozen times of trying firing up.

So far these parts has been changed
- New CR-Pump; Ford dealer said that there isn't pump on tank on this model, also relay is missing for it.
- New fuel rail sensor
- New FORD OEM fuel filter
- New base for fuel filter
- Newest ecu software uploaded
- New batteries

Some old Test
- EGR has been plugged off
- Air in fuel lines has been checked with transparent lines; No air
- Injectors has been tested on authorized Bosch dealer; Are working just fine

New tests by my self
- If vehicle doesn't start normally and I try to jump start from hill with second gear, engine will start immediately with no problem.
- Removing fuel tank cap off doesn't help
- Fuel rail pressure without load is 23000 kPa on idle(800rpm), 46000kpa on 2000rpm and 98000kpa on 4000rpm, so 46000 seems to be correct for firing up?

There is now also a new DTC error on log which hasn't been there before and do not reset:

===PCM DTC P251A:00-2F===
Code: P251A - PTO Enable Switch Circuit / Open

Status:
- DTC Present at Time of Request
- Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC

Module: Powertrain Control Module

===END PCM DTC P251A:00-2F===

On "Read PID data/Setup All Gauges" can be found PTO_STATE_RPM, it just shows "Variable Increased Idle". Do someone know should be there some reading with this vehichle or not?

I'll check next if there is some problem with taking air.

qwei
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:25 pm
Vehicle: Transit Custom 2018

Re: Transit T350 2.4TDCI 103kw AWD 2010 doesn't fire up, no fault codes.

Post by qwei » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:21 pm

I would say it is your Starter or cable which just take to Power out of the system.
If the car starts up fine by Pushing it got to be there.

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