EGR/Pressure/Injector ? (P2458 Mazda 3 Y6)

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Hallex
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EGR/Pressure/Injector ? (P2458 Mazda 3 Y6)

Post by Hallex » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:32 pm

Hello from France !

I've a question for people who know how works the EGR ! I've a Mazda 3 1.6 MZ-CD with 99 950km and there is 2 000km i've changed my DPF because he was full. But i'm still getting a problem with it.
I've a DTC P2458 "DPF duration..."

1) For me the DPF have been replaced with a new one now there is 2 000km
2) The DPF pressure looks good like 0.1-0.2 kPa in idle, and 3kPa max at 3000tr/s ! Is good for you ?
3) I've clean the EGR yesterday but i don't know if the values looks good, someone can give me the best values ?
4) All the pipes, intercooler, ... are clean !
5) No Pressure Sensor problem (or no DTC in Forscan?), hoses have been cleaned, no hole or tear
6) The DPF Additive (Eolys 176) have been refill and reset procedure with Forscan (OK)
7) I've reset DPF and EGR with Forscan

After thoses procedures, i'm still having the P2458 after than the car try to regen ! It's so borring.. Before i was to 4.7l/100km now more than 6l/100km ! And DPF regen often ! (like every 50/70km.. :evil: )

This is my Forscan result with the EGR, are they good for you ? Wha's are EGR_PCT , EGR_TV, EGRVR, EGRVP ? Because like i read on internet, the EGR must be closed but how to know if she's closed ?

1) Car on, not running :

Image

2) Car idle (~757RPM) :
Image

3) Car driving (115km/h on highway - 110km/h limited 8-) ) :
Image

4) After drive like 32km .. (idle, not driving) :
Image

EDIT :

Yesterday, after drive few kilometers the DPF try to regen. The DIST_REGEN stop to 148km if a normal regeneration is ~10-12km values with DPF are between 137km-148km (DIST-REGEN)

1) Just before regen, pressure increase but nothing special :
Image

2) DPF start to regen (?) :
Image

3) DPF is regen, DPF temps is 562° , EGR is closed ? (EGRVP) :
Image
Image

I don't really understand if it's good. Before regen the DPF pressure goes high but during regen DPF pressure looks normal ? Is the EGR closed when DPF is running (EGRVP) ?
The DPF is new (Walker DPF) i paid it 450€ :x
In Forscan, there is no option to reset DPF Pressure sensor learn value, there is no way to reset this if i'll buy a new one ? :?

If someone have an idea, because this problem is here since 3 months and i'm going to be crazy ! Sometimes i'm thinking to burn this car ! :D
Last edited by Hallex on Tue May 22, 2018 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mazda 3 BL 1.6 MZ-CD - Celestial Blue

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Hallex
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:05 pm
Vehicle: Mazda 3BL 2009 Y6

Re: EGR Problem/Pressure/.. ? (P2458)

Post by Hallex » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:58 am

Hi there !

Problem is still there, i've change my EGR by a new one, car get more power and no trouble in acceleration, and there is two weeks i've changed the differential pressure sensor by a new one, after this the car was running very good and after a regen no default ! But yesterday i've drive 300km to go to the sea but DPF have regen two times ! And after going back home and make a scan the P2458-21 was here !! :cry: :cry: :cry:

i'm going to be crazy, everything on the car is new ! No problem when i drive.. I'm thiking to delete this DPF ..
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denbo
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Re: EGR Problem/Pressure/.. ? (P2458)

Post by denbo » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:15 pm

It looks like the ash content is high! Did you tell ecm the dpf was NEW.

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Hallex
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Vehicle: Mazda 3BL 2009 Y6

Re: EGR Problem/Pressure/.. ? (P2458)

Post by Hallex » Thu May 03, 2018 4:16 pm

Hi,

Problem still there, it disapear during one week but come back. :x

Always the same, P2458 + P2409. But there is nothing about P2409 ? .. Just see a post on reddit with same problem it was just a battery problem. What do you think ?

I got :

New DPF
New EGR
New Differential pressure sensor
Refill Eolys 176 there is 2000km
New air filter + cabin filter

I've tell to ECU : New DPF procedure OK and refill tank OK + delete DTC :cry:
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MJRVR
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Re: EGR Problem/Pressure/.. ? (P2458)

Post by MJRVR » Fri May 04, 2018 6:33 am

Doesn't look like the ecu knows there's a new dpf fitted.
EGR will be closed during regen to higher the combustion temp.

Donny
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Re: EGR Problem/Pressure/.. ? (P2458)

Post by Donny » Fri May 04, 2018 7:12 pm

Hallex, I'm not an expert, I don't have the same engine as you but the EGR_TV values do not make sense. In my later model Focus this value is for the Air Shut Off Valve (Anti Shudder Valve )(Throttle Valve) in the Inlet Manifold.

My later car does not have Eolys additive so what I'm writing might not apply to your car.

The TV should always be fully open except for a few seconds when the engine is stopped (to prevent run on) but when regeneration is underway the valve should be half open and stay that way until regeneration is complete.

If the TV were sticking I would expect you to have either starting problems or run on problems as well as your DPF problems.
I would also expect your MAP readings to be unusual. At idle the MAP should read the same as atmospheric pressure, which is the same as it is when the engine is stopped. When the Turbo is working hard it should be above 200. If the valve was stuck part open the Map reading may be too high. If it was stuck closed the engine would not start or run.

Apologies if none of this applies to your engine. If it does I can provide some more information that may help you.

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Hallex
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Re: EGR Problem/Pressure/.. ? (P2458)

Post by Hallex » Sat May 05, 2018 10:53 am

MJRVR wrote:Doesn't look like the ecu knows there's a new dpf fitted.
EGR will be closed during regen to higher the combustion temp.
Hello, i think EGR is closed during regen because i can see that the value goes to 0% during it :roll:
Donny wrote:Hallex, I'm not an expert, I don't have the same engine as you but the EGR_TV values do not make sense. In my later model Focus this value is for the Air Shut Off Valve (Anti Shudder Valve )(Throttle Valve) in the Inlet Manifold.

My later car does not have Eolys additive so what I'm writing might not apply to your car.

The TV should always be fully open except for a few seconds when the engine is stopped (to prevent run on) but when regeneration is underway the valve should be half open and stay that way until regeneration is complete.

If the TV were sticking I would expect you to have either starting problems or run on problems as well as your DPF problems.
I would also expect your MAP readings to be unusual. At idle the MAP should read the same as atmospheric pressure, which is the same as it is when the engine is stopped. When the Turbo is working hard it should be above 200. If the valve was stuck part open the Map reading may be too high. If it was stuck closed the engine would not start or run.

Apologies if none of this applies to your engine. If it does I can provide some more information that may help you.
Hi and thank's ! Yes for me the EGRTV goes to 0% when car goes to regeneration, it's a new EGR i think isn't the problem ?
I'm going to explore those values, glow plugs and MAF sensor are new (march 2017)
I've ordered a new battery for my car, sometime the car don"t start linearly

Or maybe the DPF is not compatible with my car but i've checked on the Walker website before make an order and it's fit or maybe the Eolys tank who don't work :|
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Donny
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Re: EGR Problem/Pressure/.. ? (P2458)

Post by Donny » Sun May 06, 2018 8:50 am

Just to clarify Hallex, the EGR_TV that I was writing about is not part of the EGR Valve. It is situated on the opposite side of the engine between the large rubber intercooler hose and the inlet manifold. The EGRVP that goes to 0 in your screenshots is part of the EGR Valve.

If the EGR_TV is sticking closed one symptom is that when you try to start the car in the morning the engine spins at normal speed but does not fire up. If you then switch off and try to start again the engine starts instantly because the engine shaking has freed it. This can be worse in cold weather.

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Hallex
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Re: EGR Problem/Pressure/.. ? (P2458)

Post by Hallex » Mon May 21, 2018 9:34 am

Hi there !

I'm coming to give news about this DEVIL car !

I've been able to repair the P2409 DTC (Fuel Cap Sensor/Switch Circuit Range) i've check with this link https://euroesi.mazda.co.jp/esicont/eu_ ... 41000.html all the voltage, repair procedure, and Forscan app and it was a problem about the fuel cap with the magnet, i've add a new magnet with the old one, fixed it with some glue and since 6 days the P2409 is no more there. ;)

After repair this, i've gone to a gas station and check about eolys pump if something is mooving, and yes like on this screen and with Forscan (amazing tool) i can see during 5 seconds ADD_PUMP is working (after refill gas and reach 20km/h minimum). For me it's no a eolys problem (i refill the tank there is 2 000km)

Image

But, i had yesterday a new regen again.. And of course the P2458 is again here :evil: :evil:

I decided to check with the same Mazda 3 (Y6) of my cousin his values with forscan and like on this screen we can see there is no really big difference (and he don't have no problem with the DPF). There is just something who scary me, with my MAF is only 5.44 g/sec and him have 10.63 g/sec ? My MAF have been replaced there is one year because i was getting a ground body problem, but it was just a wire ground problem that I solved by soldering a new ground wire to the battery's ground (my original MAF was working but Mazda replaced it for nothing). I've replace the new one (MAF) by the old one and get the same values.

My DPF pressure look OK, there is just one thing than i can't compare is about EGRVP (EGR valve position sensor) his car show 0.16 or 0.32 max.

Image

There is 2 weeks i've made a forced regeneration procedure, after this i've made a new scan and no DTC code. But just 5 days later, a new regeneration again :(

I don't have no any other DTC code, during 2 regen the code was disapear but after come back again. Now i'm working on the problem since 4 months and i'm starting to be angry a lot. My DPF is dead ? But he have only 4 000km, my new DPF pressure sensor is again dead ? EGR isn't working correctly ? Injector problem ? And for be sure i've install a new battery. I don't know..

*And for Donny yes EGR_TV is Intake throttle valve position :) !

EDIT : After check values from Mazda repair website, MAF value at IDLE must be between (approx) 5-6 g/sec , mine is 5.44g/sec. Hum so ....

Image

2nd EDIT : After an other check about my values (dpf, turbo,..) by a mechainic, he find than they are correct. But he said me, it's maybe an injector. But there is no option for test them in Forscan, or code them if needed. Someone have an idea ? :(
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Re: EGR/Pressure/Injector ? (P2458 Mazda 3 Y6)

Post by FORScan » Wed May 23, 2018 2:18 am

We would suspect fuel additive system. The P2409 code means the system finds a problem with the fuel-filler lid:

https://euroesi.mazda.co.jp/esicont/eu_ ... 41000.html

As far as we understand from your posts, if you run DPF static regeneration in FORScan it will complete OK, and the problem is only with the automated regeneration ran by the PCM when you drive. As we can see in P2409 description above: "the fuel additive control module detects that the fuel-filler lid open while the vehicle is driven". There is no description on what happens if P2409 is registered, but we may assume it may block the fuel additive delivery and this leads to P2458. When you run the static regeneration, vehicle is stationary so no drive condition, as a result no P2409, no fuel additive delivery blockage and regeneration is performed OK. This is just an idea, not very solid and steady, but better than nothing.

So we think it does make sense to check the fuel-filler lid as recommended by Mazda (see link above). You can track the cap status using FILLER_CAP PID in FACM module. Also it does make sense to check the cap switch and it's connection (it may be a flying bug, so the cap switch is OK when the car is stationary, but contact is lost sometimes because of shaking and vibration when you drive).

As for the success story on reddit your mentioned (https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice ... 409_p2458/), we would assume that the cap got stuck (because it is used very rarely) and several removals and /installation and another refill (and may be battery disconnection) fixed the cap issue and the problem.

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