Mazda CX-5 2.2 SkyActiv-D - DPF filling fast

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zdarova
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:23 pm
Vehicle: Mazda cx-5 2.2 diesel 175hp 2016

Re: Mazda CX-5 2.2 SkyActiv-D - DPF filling fast

Post by zdarova »

After removing the MAP intake sensor, I managed to insert a video sonde to inspect the status of the valves...
You can see the results from the bellow photos.

I did the carbon removal service in the Mazda 35k km ago, and the intake is full of carbon again.
I don't have issues and error codes yet, but the regeneration is mde every 100-120 km

I believe part of this carbon went toward the DPF and helped to clogg it.

My next steps will be intake manual cleaning and DPF removal and cleaning properly.
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onetimepad
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:06 am
Vehicle: Mazda CX-5 2.2d 2016

Re: Mazda CX-5 2.2 SkyActiv-D - DPF filling fast

Post by onetimepad »

I'm also experiencing exactly the same issues that others have reported here - DPF regeneration cycles becoming more frequent, and fuel economy dropping, particularly when the car is working under load (i.e. driving in hilly areas and/or with un-aerodynamic cargo on roof bars). The car is now at 80,000 km, and regex cycles have dropped from 250+ km, to 100-120km. Almost all of my driving is medium to long distance, not town/city driving. My car had a full clean of the intake manifold (via walnut shell blasting) and had sensors (MAP etc) replaced at 30,000 km (under warranty) as it had become completely blocked (dashboard lights illuminating). My intake looked very similar to the photos just posted here by @zdarova, so it can only be a matter of time before that causes the same effect (i.e. P0401 fault code, or similar).

I now use an OBDLink and FORScan to diagnose what's going on, hence finding my way to this forum. I just checked, and my MAP sensor is almost fully clogged up again, so I suspect I would find the intake looking very similar to what it was at 30,000 km - i.e. just the same as yours, @zdarova.

Some people (e.g hiej) report that this issue went away after replacing the "EGR electronic part (the motor)", and that this issue is caused by overuse of the EGR in the pre-SH (i.e. AdBlue) engines. Others seem to suggest faulty or dirty sensors (e.g. oxygen, DPF differential pressure, Exhaust pressure, MAP or MAF) and others point at injectors or injector washers. Some forum users, like @Mareng and @Spesking, seem confident that faulty injectors are the root cause of the problem.

I also found a very similar conversation on a Mazda 3 forum (https://www.mazda3revolution.com/thread ... ion.128714) where most of the contributors point at injectors being the problem, and appear to suggest that some Mazda dealers are aware of this problem, and prepared to contribute to the cost of replacement.

Like many others, my car reports PM_ACC, PM_ACC_DSD and PM_GEN all being zero, or very close to it, after a regen, so I don't believe the DPF itself is actually blocked.

It clearly isn't right for the intake, EGR and sensors to get so fouled with carbon, and does suggest poor combustion, so I'm going to get those cleaned out. But that shouldn't make any real difference to the regen interval. I.e. it's more likely a symptom of either poor combustion or the EGR valve being mostly open during long runs. I want to fix the root cause, not just keep paying to treat the symptoms.

Has anyone else got any experiences of replacing the injectors? Can anyone that did this (e.g. @Mareng or @Spesking) confirm that the regen intervals have stayed high since doing it? Did Mazda offer any contribution to towards the cost of this, or acknowledge any responsibility for faulty components?

If this is a problem known to Mazda, and as common with these engine as internet forums appear to suggest, surely this is not too dissimilar to the VW-gate scandal. I.e. where these 2.2d engines are causing excess fuel consumption, and therefore emissions. It's possible that we are the small minority of unlucky people, suffering a rare problem, but I suspect not. Has anyone contacted Mazda directly and got a satisfactory response? Would anyone be interested in joining up and writing to their HQ as a group?

@zdarova - I seem to be in exactly the same position as you, so would be very keen to share experiences.
Mareng
Posts: 65
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:41 pm
Vehicle: Mazda 6 Diesel, 2.2, 2014, Britain
Location: Great Britain

Re: Mazda CX-5 2.2 SkyActiv-D - DPF filling fast

Post by Mareng »

1.With those two sets of Injector test printouts, assuming the Max & Min are from Denso or Mazda then I would say those injectors are ok as the figure falls within all the parameters.

2. Your average Mazda Mechanic I doubt will have the equipment nor the knowledge to test the injectors as above, he only does the calibration.

3. Blanking off the EGR is not the answer.
4. Unless you have been doing a lot of town driving, I doubt if the dpf needs changing, just a good regen and several hours sat at the maximum speed limit to enable the engine tog et good and hot.
5. I suffered on my 2014, high fuel consumption, frequent regens and quickly rising sump.
6. With mine it turned out at requiring 4 new injectors. Once fitted it was like chalk and cheese.
7. Performance didn't change, but regens changed to every 200miles 320 kms instead of 30 miles 48 kms.
8.Dpf DP sensor changs 3 times ( it wasn't that) but faulty injectors, which dealers don't know about.
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Oil dilution is minimal and between 50-65mpg.
I don't add any of this snake oil you get in a bottle.
Even when the car was new I never achieved anything like the good fuel consumption I do now, so theyeither corrected the fault in the injectoror tweaked the software or both.
40- 50 k miles is when the problem became most apparent.

Taking out the injectors and looking at them with the naked eye you won't see anything.i even took close up photographes of the nozzles to send away to Mazda, but it was hard to tell unless you have a microscope and a new injector alongside to compare nozzle holes.
The washers won't cause the problem, but if leaking will add harmfull sludge to the sump and wipe the bearings.
Mazda UK and EUR know about the problem, but keep mum .
onetimepad
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:06 am
Vehicle: Mazda CX-5 2.2d 2016

Re: Mazda CX-5 2.2 SkyActiv-D - DPF filling fast

Post by onetimepad »

Mareng - did you get the new injectors fitted by a Mazda dealer? What did it cost, including parts and labour? Did Mazda agree to make any contribution towards the cost? I don't understand why this hasn't become such a known, acknowledged, issue in the dealerships (given it affects at least three models of their vehicles using the 2.2d engine).
sikmedve
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2022 1:28 pm
Vehicle: CX-5, 2.2D 175PS, 2015

Re: Mazda CX-5 2.2 SkyActiv-D - DPF filling fast

Post by sikmedve »

Do you have the old injectors?
It would be interesting to put them to the same test bench to verify if a test bench can show the problems with them.
Mareng wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:29 pm
1.With those two sets of Injector test printouts, assuming the Max & Min are from Denso or Mazda then I would say those injectors are ok as the figure falls within all the parameters.

2. Your average Mazda Mechanic I doubt will have the equipment nor the knowledge to test the injectors as above, he only does the calibration.

3. Blanking off the EGR is not the answer.
4. Unless you have been doing a lot of town driving, I doubt if the dpf needs changing, just a good regen and several hours sat at the maximum speed limit to enable the engine tog et good and hot.
5. I suffered on my 2014, high fuel consumption, frequent regens and quickly rising sump.
6. With mine it turned out at requiring 4 new injectors. Once fitted it was like chalk and cheese.
7. Performance didn't change, but regens changed to every 200miles 320 kms instead of 30 miles 48 kms.
8.Dpf DP sensor changs 3 times ( it wasn't that) but faulty injectors, which dealers don't know about.
No. 4 (8039).JPG

Oil dilution is minimal and between 50-65mpg.
I don't add any of this snake oil you get in a bottle.
Even when the car was new I never achieved anything like the good fuel consumption I do now, so theyeither corrected the fault in the injectoror tweaked the software or both.
40- 50 k miles is when the problem became most apparent.

Taking out the injectors and looking at them with the naked eye you won't see anything.i even took close up photographes of the nozzles to send away to Mazda, but it was hard to tell unless you have a microscope and a new injector alongside to compare nozzle holes.
The washers won't cause the problem, but if leaking will add harmfull sludge to the sump and wipe the bearings.
Mazda UK and EUR know about the problem, but keep mum .
sikmedve
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2022 1:28 pm
Vehicle: CX-5, 2.2D 175PS, 2015

Re: Mazda CX-5 2.2 SkyActiv-D - DPF filling fast

Post by sikmedve »

BTW does anybody has faulty injectors what could be used to find out if test bench measurement can find them?
coolpix99
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:47 am
Vehicle: Mazda CX5 2.2D 2014

Re: Mazda CX-5 2.2 SkyActiv-D - DPF filling fast

Post by coolpix99 »

Been following this post for quite some time. I also own a 2014 diesel 175PS version. Intake manifold, EGR and throttle body were taken apart for carbon cleaning. Same goes for the DPF. Saw no major improvement in regen interval. Average regen interval has been between 150-170KM on 120 KM/H average speed. If I go slower at about 90-100 km/h then 200+KM regen interval can be seen with the highest I ever saw was around 240KM.

At 100KM/H car returns about 17KM/L which is not bad, but the amount of fuel being used for regens which is pretty frequent just kills the mileage.

Next on my list is to have a shop take apart my injector for a full service job like one of the members here suggested... hopefully they can still be cleaned, so that I don't have to replace them out of my pocket.

If my understanding is correct and please excuse my poor knowledge on EGR, DPF topic. When EGR is opened, NOx is reduced, but more PM is generated, so if EGR can be controlled in a way in such that we can reduce its' opening (from OEM parameters) during cruising speed region (say 80-120KM/H). Would that help reduce the amount of PM generated, thus less DPF regeneration cycle?

I ask because I did some searching and bought the mazdaedit software to reprogram the PCM and found these EGR related parameters. Note the highlighted parameters from fuel injection quantity (>18) and RPM (>1600) onwards, I'm wondering if any modifications to reduce the amount of EGR opening would help lower PM generation? I have yet to try updating and flashing these parameters as I'm not sure if any other tables have to be modified as well. Any thoughts?

P.S. Please refer to EGR Table #1 and #2 per attached only. EGR Table 3 probably doesn't apply to what I tried to explain above as the EGR remains closed as soon as injection quantity rises above 18.
Attachments
EGR Table 3.jpg
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EGR Table 2.jpg
EGR Table 2.jpg (173.7 KiB) Viewed 308 times
EGR Table 1.jpg
EGR Table 1.jpg (173.82 KiB) Viewed 308 times
zdarova
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:23 pm
Vehicle: Mazda cx-5 2.2 diesel 175hp 2016

Re: Mazda CX-5 2.2 SkyActiv-D - DPF filling fast

Post by zdarova »

Interesting...
I would try to set the EGR to work only from 800 to 1600 rpm, when the engine warms-up, else to be closed
coolpix99
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:47 am
Vehicle: Mazda CX5 2.2D 2014

Re: Mazda CX-5 2.2 SkyActiv-D - DPF filling fast

Post by coolpix99 »

zdarova wrote:
Thu Sep 08, 2022 8:29 am
Interesting...
I would try to set the EGR to work only from 800 to 1600 rpm, when the engine warms-up, else to be closed
My initial thought as well. I went ahead and remove the cold start feature as I live in warm part of the world (avg temp is rarely ever below 20C in the morning, plus side of that is way less smell during cold start. I figure EGR opens from idle to near 2000 rpm in light load condition(low fuel injection quantity) should be good during city driving so it won’t product too much NOx around humans, if you will.

Already scheduled for full injection service (taking them apart, clean and calibrate). Will continue to monitor regen frequency before the EGR programming to see the differences.
zdarova
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:23 pm
Vehicle: Mazda cx-5 2.2 diesel 175hp 2016

Re: Mazda CX-5 2.2 SkyActiv-D - DPF filling fast

Post by zdarova »

Keep us updated!
Whats mazda model do you have and what setup do you use to upgrade the ECU?
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