Charging issue with 06 Escape

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DennisH
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:44 pm
Vehicle: 2010 Expedition / 2006 Escape

Charging issue with 06 Escape

Post by DennisH »

2006 Escape 3.0

Will spare the long details, but looking for someone who has similiar Escape to run a quick test. Would like to see the graph of GenCom and GenMon in PCM for a min or so. I think I should be getting a pulse on GenCom every 5 sec, but this vehicle (with new ECU and alternator) is only showing every 15 sec and sometimes only once a min. Seems to only pulse when it wants alternator to change.
My 2010 Expedition shows 5 sec pulses as expected.
Trying to solve occasional overcharge (18V) issue, but having limited luck. Can go into details in separate thread, but would really like to see if my ECU is the same as others first.

Thanks,
DennisH
hueypilot
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:06 pm
Vehicle: 2017 Ford Police 3.5L
Location: Oceanside, CA USA

Re: Charging issue with 06 Escape

Post by hueypilot »

What is the GenCom doing when it's overcharging, and what is the GenMon PID doing? This will tell you what the PCM wants.

Never hurts to check the B+ circuits, but I would find it unusual for that to be an issue. A voltdrop is always a good thing on any charging system issue. But, since this only started when you replaced the alt., then more than likely it's just a crappy AM alternator.

Turn KO, disconnect Alternator small three pin. Short GenMon, and Com together. Put just those PIDs up on the scanner, and start the car: do they read the same, or close for a few seconds? If so, there's nothing wrong with those circuits, or the PCM, as it is seeing almost exactly what it is sending out. No scope necessary.

You have a PCM, an alternator, and wiring connecting the two. That's the whole system. GenMon and GenCom are your window into what is going on. If you jumper GenMon and GenCom together at the disconnected alternator harness, your scanner should read identical numbers. If not, PCM / wiring issue.

Add a jumper wire from the Neg battery terminal to Alt case. Add jumper from Pos battery terminal to B+ lug on Alt. Problem fixed? No, you need OEM alternator. Aftermarket PCM control alternators won't work. OEM alternators are Vin matched.

BTW, must be new, not reman OEM.

Any questions?

Cheers!

Dwight.
DennisH
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:44 pm
Vehicle: 2010 Expedition / 2006 Escape

Re: Charging issue with 06 Escape

Post by DennisH »

Busy weekend, so didn't get a chance to reply...

I have been able to do some more tests this weekend. I am certainly leaning toward bad replacement alternator also. On this Escape, you have to remove wheel, halfshaft, unhook part of the upper motor mount to even get to the alternator, so hooking anything up to it is almost impossible. Can make everything go back to normal if I disconnect battery for 5 min. Here is what I have done this weekend...

Car is in proper charging condition. Here is a 'normal' startup. Cmd and Mon signal look fine, Voltage reported fine.
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When driving for 15 min around local area, issue happens and dash goes away. Caught on Forscan.
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Headed home with problem happening and can see when RPM dropped low, it tried to start working, but only for a very short time.
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Got home, shut off, and disconnected all connections to ECU for 5 min. Figured if problem went away, ECU was probably to blame. Started back up, and same no mon, high voltage issue.
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Disconnected battery for 5 min, and back to operational. My gut says it has to be a bad regulator in crappy rebuilt alternator. So I guess another 3 hours of labor and a Motorcraft alternator is next, right?
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I would normally replace an alternator or other things like that myself, but not this vehicle... I have to take it in to do it. Really want a lift and more time and tools than I have. I just want all the supporting evidence I can get to pinpoint the issue. I started diagnosing too late and have already dumped too much into this for the problem.

I have had the issue not happen with 10 min warmups and then driving for 30 min, and have had it happen when it was cold and not make it out of the neighborhood. This was driving for probably 20 min today with neighborhood and a short highway section, My mechanic is really good at the mechanical part and has done engine swaps and several other of the bigger things, but appears to struggle on the weird electrical stuff. After replacing the alternator because it was doing the same thing, said it was probably the ECU. I made a huge financial mistake and sent the ECU off to moduleexperts.com/. Horrible mistake. They said it was tested and unrepairable, and I needed a new (rebuilt) one. It appears nothing was wrong since the replacement worked exactly the same giving the overcharge. I feel stupid for falling for it and they will not respond to calls, emails, etc. They answer really quick when they want the business...
hueypilot
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:06 pm
Vehicle: 2017 Ford Police 3.5L
Location: Oceanside, CA USA

Re: Charging issue with 06 Escape

Post by hueypilot »

I feel your pain, I own an automotive repair shop. I have yet to find a good re-builder for any module or PCM. Furthermore, I prefer to install used OEM modules. You could go to the bone yard and find a used OEM alternator and save some coin.
DennisH
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:44 pm
Vehicle: 2010 Expedition / 2006 Escape

Re: Charging issue with 06 Escape

Post by DennisH »

My main issue is that the reman replacement alternator is the problem, but the module company were telling me the ECM/PCM was diagnosed, found bad, and unrepairable. There appears to have been nothing wrong with it and I got hosed. Didn't do myself any favors by not getting the signals first and assuming since I had the exact same issue with a replacement alternator, it had to be the ECM somehow. Now I'm out almost $500 for an ECM and I can't 'prove' that it was good when I sent it in.

Lesson learned on that though, but it was a hard one...
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