P07A3 Clutch functionally stuck on

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1007hill@gmail.com
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:30 pm
Vehicle: Fiesta, Duratec Ti-VCT 1.6L/120hp, 2012

P07A3 Clutch functionally stuck on

Post by 1007hill@gmail.com » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:43 am

:roll: Hi all. I've spent a couple of months researching this issue on my 2012 Fiesta SE "Certified Preowned" with the Powershift 6DCT. The Ford dealer in my town can't figure out my issue (ie. clueless). Under warrenty they replaced the clutch and then the TCM. Already had a new battery. Dealer did the adaptive learning and it helped a little. Then I replaced the clutch actuator motors. After the clutch motors were replaced the car would work fine 50% and mess up 50% of the time, literally every other engine start. I ran the FORScan TCM adaptive learning function, which went smoothy with no errors. All the clutch routines went fine but didn't fix my issue. The diagnostics still showed a clutch error "Clutch A spring cannot fully open clutch" ocurring every other start. When it messed up it would skip 3rd and 5th gear, basically just not shifting that side of gearbox but still worked first gear just fine. I ran the adaptive learning a couple of times but no improvement. Whichever mode the car starts in, it says in until the next start.

For a basic understanding, when shifted to Park the clutches are disengaged (neutral) and a parking pawl is engaged on the output shaft so car won't roll away. The gear shift actuators are moved to 1st and Reverse since one of those would be selected out of park. Just starting the car and shutting off without moving I still hear noises which i read may be the clutches cycling to the released position. Just running the engine and shutting off for 45 seconds before restarting to clear the TCM seems to be enough to allow normal transmission operation.

Far as I can tell the only clutch sensors are the Hall sensors inside the clutch actuator motors. I'm not sure how the scan software can know the clutch return spring is not fully opening the clutch except for counting the revolutions back to the starting "open" position and presuming the amount of clutch disengagement. A spring forces the actuator back to the start position when disengaged. So cycling the clutches might reset the error on the clutch but not acknowledged until the next start. The weird thing is it happens every other start.

I think it might be one of these issues:
- Clutch motor ball screw hanging up
- Misalignment of clutch A fork (engagement lever) or bent fork
- Glitchy software in TCM
- Glitch in ECM communicating with TCM
- Bad replacement TCM
- Bad replacement clutch motor
- Wire harness issue
- Throw out bearing
- Something hanging up in transmission confusing another sensor
- Something else f#$%ed up in transmission

What do you all think may be the issue?

Nutloose
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:26 am
Vehicle: BMW E36 V6 Project

Re: P07A3 Clutch functionally stuck on

Post by Nutloose » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:50 am

The clutch stuck on fault can be recognised by the input speed not reading Zero (clutch dragging)
or as you suspect, by the clutch actuator not returning far enough.(brushless motor with position sensor)
When the dealer changed the clutch... was the fork/bearing and release spring assembly also changed? or as usual just the clutch.
If the mounting bolt springs go weak or fracture (not unusual) they do not return the actuator far enough, and the old clutch detritus can jam the rollers, blocking the release.
Try swapping the actuators and see if the fault changes to the other clutch first.
If you do go messing... make sure you use the correct spring placement, they are numbered and must match each clutch.

1007hill@gmail.com
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:30 pm
Vehicle: Fiesta, Duratec Ti-VCT 1.6L/120hp, 2012

Re: P07A3 Clutch functionally stuck on

Post by 1007hill@gmail.com » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:01 am

Thanks for the reply. There isn't really any info on this fault code out there. The dealer did not change the fork/bearing and release spring assembly. They did the "free" warranty work only and didn't ask me if I wanted those replaced while it was apart. Of course they want to charge me $$$ now to tear it apart to replace those. It's not a do it yourself job as it requires several special tools for pulling and alignment of the clutch assembly.
The clutch actuator swap is next on my list and is fairly easy. The weird thing is that it runs perfectly literally every other start.

gg1234635
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:04 pm
Vehicle: mondeo, 2.0 180, 2016

Re: P07A3 Clutch functionally stuck on

Post by gg1234635 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:10 am

not sure if this helps or not but it sounds like something is sticking or not releasing correctly. do you have any relays that could be not closing correctly or any other part that changes with a power cycle and therefor with a power cycle it changes every other time?
ignore if im completely off the mark

1007hill@gmail.com
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:30 pm
Vehicle: Fiesta, Duratec Ti-VCT 1.6L/120hp, 2012

Re: P07A3 Clutch functionally stuck on

Post by 1007hill@gmail.com » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:49 am

I swapped clutch motor positions and redid the clutch training with no improvement. The TCM controls all the motors so I assume any relays are inside it and not accessible. I think there is something going on internally, could be sticking or not releasing. When it messes up the A clutch won't release right away, but just at the beginning of driving, then seems fine. The TCM sees the clutch is not fully released at start up and locks out 3rd and 5th. FORScan diagnostics shows it faulting every other start.
Now I'm thinking it could be something in the clutch lever actuator like a weak return spring or rollers dragging.

1007hill@gmail.com
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:30 pm
Vehicle: Fiesta, Duratec Ti-VCT 1.6L/120hp, 2012

Re: P07A3 Clutch functionally stuck on

Post by 1007hill@gmail.com » Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:00 am

I've run the TCM diagnostics again to try and see what's happening and when. It's failing the Clutch A self test the first time I start them after about 45 seconds it just show "error". This is when it skips 3rd and 5th gear. Shutting the engine off for 45 seconds or longer and restarting and the transmission acts totally normal but still shows an error. Cycling the engine again starts everything over.

I suspect that the Clutch A actuator lever got slightly bent due to the gittery clutch slipping from a leaking seal. With a new seal and clutch pack installed (and nothing else) the TCM was struggling with the slight reduction in lever motion during self test thinking the clutch wasn't fully releasing. And sometimes it really wasn't. I'm guessing the TCM programming is allowing it to ignore the error one start and if it still sees it then fails it again. And this is the cycle I'm in now. Fail, forgive, fail, forgive.

Contacted the Ford dealer again to discuss their ineptness by not replacing the actuator levers and bearings while it was all apart. They have now revised their estimate down about $1500 so I'll only pay about $150 to pull the trans and replace these parts. I'll update this in a couple of weeks.

1007hill@gmail.com
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:30 pm
Vehicle: Fiesta, Duratec Ti-VCT 1.6L/120hp, 2012

Re: P07A3 Clutch functionally stuck on

Post by 1007hill@gmail.com » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:21 am

Finally got this fixed. The problem was the clutch actuator lever A was damaged enough that the TCM couldn't quite determine if it was a problem, so it let it work half the time. The actuator levers and sleeve behind the clutch weren't replaced when the clutch was done before and they didn't ask me if I wanted it done then. Runs and shifts very smoothly now. So it pays understand the problem a little, speak up when necessary, and replace all the wear parts if they pull the transmission. Thanks to FORScan to be able to see what the TCM was seeing so I could speak up with some knowledge. :D

promo7uk
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:22 pm
Vehicle: ford fiesta mk8

Re: P07A3 Clutch functionally stuck on

Post by promo7uk » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:20 am

glad you got it sorted mate, all good news, when people get theres cars sorted with help from forscan decent tool for fords i wouldnt use anythink else now still learning how to use this top tool.

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