2008 Galaxy Duratorq Vane pos vs duty cycle

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geedle
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:13 pm
Vehicle: Galaxy 2008 2.0 Duratorq 143 TDCI

2008 Galaxy Duratorq Vane pos vs duty cycle

Post by geedle »

I have a 2008 Galaxy (basically a Mondeo) which suffers from surging. It never seems feels like it reaches full power before it dumps all the boost.

I wanted to look at vane position against the commanded duty cycle, to see if it was a command problem or something else (turbo or actuator). I can only find the vane position (which quickly and constantly goes high to low - see attached). There is no duty cycle PID for the vacuum solenoid that controls it. The EGR system, which has an identical solenoid shows commanded level, actual level and % difference.

Any ideas how to find some useful data to help diagnose this, especially turbo solenoid duty cycle?

Thanks, Geedle
FORSCAN.PNG
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Ecmbuster
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Re: 2008 Galaxy Duratorq Vane pos vs duty cycle

Post by Ecmbuster »

No one has a clue "Galaxy 2008 143"
What engine?
Do you have a wiring schematic to determine the components installed in that mystery Galaxy?
The schematics will help you test and measure the exact component you struggle with.
Do not ask for help in PM. Use the forum to ask and answer questions!
geedle
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:13 pm
Vehicle: Galaxy 2008 2.0 Duratorq 143 TDCI

Re: 2008 Galaxy Duratorq Vane pos vs duty cycle

Post by geedle »

A Galaxy is a MPV sold through most of Europe and beyond. It has Mondeo underpinnings.

I've got the wiring diags for it, but that's not really helpful for the test I want to perform.
geedle
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:13 pm
Vehicle: Galaxy 2008 2.0 Duratorq 143 TDCI

Re: 2008 Galaxy Duratorq Vane pos vs duty cycle

Post by geedle »

The 143 is the 2.0 Duratorq tdci.
Ecmbuster
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Re: 2008 Galaxy Duratorq Vane pos vs duty cycle

Post by Ecmbuster »

The schematic is of use when you can find out what is controlling the turbo.
If this is the model I an thinking of, testing the vacuum actuator and the movement of the actuating rod should be tested cold.
The diaphragm should hold vacuum with a hand held pump. The movement of the actuator should be smooth from the open to closed end.
The duty cycle however is PCM controlled. There should be a pressure sensor that determined boost pressure.
The one test to determine any pressure leaks can be done two ways.

The pressure side can be blocked at both ends. One test we use is a "smoke machine" but the best test is with a low pressure regulator.
The low pressure regulator will apply a small amount of air pressure and using a "soapy water" solution will determine a pressure leak.
All this can be hand made but the regulator is what keeps the system from damage.
0 - 5 psi is enough with the soapy water as the tell tale sign of a leak.
Leaks can also be found at solenoids as well. Just be patient and look for the possible leak.
Pressure tester.jpg
Pressure tester.jpg (19.22 KiB) Viewed 153 times
Use the example with plastic plumbing parts to make a simple test device.
Post your PCM schematic.
Do not ask for help in PM. Use the forum to ask and answer questions!
geedle
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:13 pm
Vehicle: Galaxy 2008 2.0 Duratorq 143 TDCI

Re: 2008 Galaxy Duratorq Vane pos vs duty cycle

Post by geedle »

A leak test was my first test. I did find and fix a couple of small leaks. No difference. I tested both vacuum solonoids. Neither were working well so both replaced.

Is their a PID for the duty cycle for the turbo actuator? I cant tell if the actuator/turbo is faulty or if it being given a the wrong position by the ecu (via the vacuum solonoid). I can see that the came position is reading wrong. Just don't know if it a mechanical fault or the ecu because I can't see the duty cycle.
Ecmbuster
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Re: 2008 Galaxy Duratorq Vane pos vs duty cycle

Post by Ecmbuster »

There's a vacuum pump mounted on that model correct?
Did you measure it? At the actuator side, add a measuring test "T" and see how much it is active or not active.
Once again, post the schematic you have for your exact model.
Instead of a graph, post the numerical values but mouse over each PID, there should be an explanation of each PID while accessed.
Do not ask for help in PM. Use the forum to ask and answer questions!
geedle
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:13 pm
Vehicle: Galaxy 2008 2.0 Duratorq 143 TDCI

Re: 2008 Galaxy Duratorq Vane pos vs duty cycle

Post by geedle »

Hi,

Sorry for the delay in replying - life got ahead of me for a bit. So I've completed and redone a few tests:

Vacuum System Test
The vacuum pump seems to be creating steady pressure with the engine running. There is no fluctuations in it. It holds vacuum for hours after the engine is switched off. I think it was just over 25Hg it was pulling.

Turbo Actuator
I connected a hand operated vacuum pump in place of the vacuum solenoid. I watched the vane position on Forscan and was able to see it move from 0.69% to 100.69%. It moved smoothly, and held vacuum. It seems to be about 0.69% out - could that be a problem?

Leak Test
I re-did the leak test at slightly higher pressure. I build a leak tester for this car years ago - if anyone is interested, an old MK3 Mondeo wheel bearing casing with a plate welded across the top with a tire valve in the plate makes a perfect fit. It's holding pressure really well and lots of soapy water was applied. I couldn't see the air duct at the back of the engine, but it is holding air for along period of time. I've done a few of these tests and this car is really good even though it is high mileage.

Voltage at Sensors
I thought I had a wiring schematic, but apparently the Haynes manuals only show wiring for everything except from the engine. So this has been difficult. I back probed the wires with KOER. On the MAF I can see 12v (presumably wire heater) and 2.4v. On the MAP I can see 2.4v. Is 2.4v normal? 3.3v and 5v seem to be more normal electronics voltages.

I then captured sensor data with KOEO and KOER, as requested in numerical values (attached). If it matters, I live pretty much at sea level.

Other bits done:
- both vacuum solenoids replaced (turbo actuator and EGR)
- MAF and MAP swapped out for used ones from the scrap yard. MAP made no difference. MAF caused low voltage error, so I assume the new one was broken
- turbo vanes cleaned with Mr Muscle
- Air filter checked for blocking

Thanks for your help so far - it is appreciated.
KOER.PNG
KOER.PNG (35.44 KiB) Viewed 68 times
KOEO.PNG
KOEO.PNG (33.2 KiB) Viewed 68 times
geedle
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 1:13 pm
Vehicle: Galaxy 2008 2.0 Duratorq 143 TDCI

Re: 2008 Galaxy Duratorq Vane pos vs duty cycle

Post by geedle »

Why is B+ so low (1.19v) with the engine running? That looks strange...
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