PATS 2008 Ford Escape

Any issues related to FORScan application
sleepycowboy87
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:11 pm
Vehicle: Escape, 3.0L., 2008
Location: Texas

Re: PATS 2008 Ford Escape

Post by sleepycowboy87 »

I'm sorry just beating myself up won't solve anything. Or being bullheaded. But you are right. If the PATS isn't communicating together or with the pcm then I have another problem. I do not think the dealer sold me the wrong part nor do I think the keys are bad. Still a possibility but most likely a wiring fault or transceiver module. And new software wouldn't help. Nor does going in circles. And if I had sent the car to a dealer I could think that they spent to much time on this or added extra parts, But after working on it I can understand so much more. But the service departments here are are understaffed and I can understand why they would avoid certain jobs. It's not something small towns see often. But they have access to step by step diagnosis and equipment that I don't have. Even if they had to learn something new like me. The immobilizer test ring makes sense. So does testing the wiring and other things. Instead of being frustrated that FORSCan doesn't erase KAM or let me do parameter reset or pcm/IC resets, I can try something different. I do not know if there are differences between immobilizer rings for makes etc. I know nothing about an oscilloscope but I've seen Gone In Sixty Seconds and can see how thieves are more technologically advanced than I am. Thanks for being honest and opening my eyes to other perspectives.
Ecmbuster
Posts: 1303
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:08 am
Vehicle: Volvo Bertone and two Motorcyles
Location: On a spinning rock

Re: PATS 2008 Ford Escape

Post by Ecmbuster »

You first post mentioned " I had a friend try to help me long ago by bypassing a relay to get the fuel pump to run."
Did you remove that relay and connections? That model has an inertia reset "in case of an accident".
The oscilloscope feature with FORScan is not that same as a physical oscilloscope that tests the Tx and Rx lines of the PATS key reader to the Instrument Cluster.
Attempt the same tests again, deleting all the faults and applying the keys.
This time, make sure a charger is on the battery and leave the connection alone at the data link.
Follow all the tests and warnings on the screen

Read this post:
viewtopic.php?p=61726
There may be some similarities.

The reasoning was only once with a similar model. This Escape had a worn ignition cylinder / ignition lock assembly.
The wear was so much that the key had to be turned with more force to get the electrical part to engage the start sequence.
Use the image as an example.
Ignition cam.jpg
Ignition cam.jpg (59.74 KiB) Viewed 234 times
If it is true that it doesn't see the correct ON to OFF and back to ON state of the electrical part, that may be the problem.
The inertial switch should be at the right side kick-panel.
Inertia fuel shut-off.pdf
(125.28 KiB) Downloaded 13 times
Post your first FORScan screen results on connection and what is on the network at the Modules Tab
Post your VIN
A reputable shop in your area would know exactly what and where to test.
Do not ask for help in PM. Use the forum to ask and answer questions!
sleepycowboy87
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:11 pm
Vehicle: Escape, 3.0L., 2008
Location: Texas

Re: PATS 2008 Ford Escape

Post by sleepycowboy87 »

The VIN was in a several attachments but 1FMCU03108KA20301. I understood that the oscilloscope wasn't the same or you would've told me to use it. The relays and wiring is back together from when he tried to jump start the fuel pump. That doesn't mean that something wasn't damaged like burning a wire at the underhood fusebox. The pump never came on. Nor does it now. The dash lights up when I 1st turn the car on. It's just sometimes after sitting over 10 minutes (waiting for PATS security clearance/access) nothing shows on the dash. The airbag light near the radio lights up so the key still functions. Yes I understand the inertia switch. If the car cranked and didn't have fuel pressure I'd question it. But usually they don't prevent the starter from cranking. As I recall the keys do not like to go into the ignition switch with the buttons toward the back. But will. The dash lights up. But the red lock doesn't unlock. Because I have no keys stored. And before that they were stored in the pcm and could lock and unlock but couldn't crank. Because I had swapped the ICM without giving the pcm the proper instructions. But I understand what you/they are talking about with the key and ignition switch. Currently was looking for Ford Factory Service manual for this car and the immobilizer test ring pictured. I googled all sorts of shapes came up. Not expensive at all. I was thinking maybe just cheaper to replace the part than to buy a tool I'd only use once. Not the case at all. I live alone and currently afoot. I have data (for now) but 2 printers are out of ink and my patience needs lots of work. But I won't starve and I've been without car before. I have a truck I could fix faster but I thought this job would be easier when I started. May be the same case there.
sleepycowboy87
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:11 pm
Vehicle: Escape, 3.0L., 2008
Location: Texas

Re: PATS 2008 Ford Escape

Post by sleepycowboy87 »

Same results. Ok entering security access my dash panel goes blank. a few days ago when I saw the lights and heard beeping it was probably after disconnecting DLC. And the 1st day possibly my keys were never erased. Anyway it showed 2 programmed keys now it doesn't so it limits the options. PATS FAILED every time I tried to ADD IGNITION KEY. If I go to ERASE AND PROGRAM KEYS It erases and gives instructions to add. Key off 10 sec key RUN 6 sec. Remove and insert 2nd key within 5 sec of removing 1st. Turn key to RUN for at least 6 sec. I can not initialize ICM until I have 2 programmed keys. It showed 2 programmed keys the 1st day but still would not allow me. I can not erase the codes shown at startup with them coming back. Except the ICM code. I can unplug it and plug back in and that code goes away until I start over. I do believe that you are right about the car not reading my keys. Possibly it did not have to read them for the buttons to lock/unlock doors because they were stored in the pcm. The keys worked at the beginning of the week for that part. If an antenna is involved it should have been working. As for the transceiver or the wiring I'm still going to check it. I may have to wait on a service manual. The fuses checked fine. From what I've seen the transponder/transceiver/antenna doesn't require programming so there shouldn't be variations for this car. I will still have to program because I replaced the ICM and haven't initialized it. So my problem is still can't erase KAM, reset parameters, reset pcm, reset IC, program keys. So back to getting service manual, immobilizer test ring, checking wiring, or replacing additional parts. Attachments may be in reverse order. I appreciate your assistance. Solving problems and facing challenges builds confidence, independence, and self esteem. Other times it makes us face reality and rely on expert professionals or to learn from them. Either my data is almost expired or I'm in limited mode for the rest of the day. I'm having trouble posting and with attachments.
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Ecmbuster
Posts: 1303
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:08 am
Vehicle: Volvo Bertone and two Motorcyles
Location: On a spinning rock

Re: PATS 2008 Ford Escape

Post by Ecmbuster »

Your concern is a no start or no crank.
The self-test of the Instrument Cluster resulted in fault code B2141.
The self-test of the Powertrain Control Module resulted in code P1260.
If that process is constantly repeated – read on.

(A) The parameter reset procedure may or not be performed but the same codes continue to be recorded.
(B) This particular issue has been repeated over time, it will not crank / keys not able to be set with PATS programming.

If performing the parameter reset procedure of the Instrument Cluster with a programming scan tool such as FORScan and fault code B2141 returns, it is highly probable the Instrument Cluster has lost or does not know the identification of the PCM. This is a common occurrence when either the PCM or the Instrument Cluster is replaced.

If the Instrument Cluster and PCM were not replaced (original) and the codes continue to be recorded with the parameter reset failing, ensure and verify that the vehicle does not have any add-on devices such as: anti-theft devices, remote starter or any other add-on device.

If there are no such add-on devices, or removing / disabling these devices from operating and does not change the programming conditions, remove the Instrument Cluster and personally inspect the Instrument Cluster connections for any possible concerns before trashing the Instrument Cluster.

The PATS key reader performs the task of (1) reading the key and (2) sending that saved data to the Instrument Cluster. The PATS key reader and Instrument Cluster transmit and receive data. If the data is correct, the PCM is now authorized via PATS to enable the fuel pump and crank the engine.

The only possible solution is to program the Instrument Cluster and PCM to match each other for that VIN. Only then can a parameter reset procedure continue.

If the keys are OEM and both the Instrument Cluster and PCM are having a party together, then the keys can be programmed into the PATS system.

The remotes are not programmed in the PCM, they are programmed in the BCM.

As a matter of interest, here is your As-Built for the Instrument Cluster, does it match?
ICM 720-01-01 DB08 5000 5C
Do not ask for help in PM. Use the forum to ask and answer questions!
sleepycowboy87
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:11 pm
Vehicle: Escape, 3.0L., 2008
Location: Texas

Re: PATS 2008 Ford Escape

Post by sleepycowboy87 »

I have not looked at the AS BUILT screen but will. I have ordered a service manual and a immobilizer test ring. But yes no crank no start no fuel pump. It was my understanding that I could match, marry, integrate the pcm and icm with a programmer and security clearance. And provided that I installed the correct replacement ICM. I also understand if a mechanical or wiring issue is not resolved then there will be no improvement. They car has not moved since I replaced the ICM. But easy enough to pull it back out and inspect it. As I said before it is very possible another component of PATS failed before I replaced the instrument cluster. And my keys were already stored so they continued to work the locks. I don't believe FORScan actually erased the keys the 1st day. If it did then it added them back in. Which I can't do now. I either have to adapt my ICM to work or replace it or find another issue that's causing the problem. Possibly that is why PROCEDURE UNAVAILABLE shows up on reset and PATS FAILED shows up trying to ADD KEYS. All the info is very beneficial. I'll be able to check the wiring next week and hopefully get better at diagnostics. I can check the AS BUILT STAUS before then. Thanks. Have a HAPPY FATHER"S DAY.
sleepycowboy87
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:11 pm
Vehicle: Escape, 3.0L., 2008
Location: Texas

Re: PATS 2008 Ford Escape

Post by sleepycowboy87 »

I checked IC AS BUILT. My keys should be OEM and functional. RE: ICM 720-01-01 DB08 5000 5C My #s show ICM 720-01-01 0A08 6000 9B. I can change them and write to ECM but does nothing. I still can't erase DTC permanently or add keys or erase and add keys or do pcm rest or icm reset. It asks if I want to download data but I didn't. I wanted to check my data amount available first and I did not know where it would take me online or what else I had to do. So I changed ICM AS BUILT back to as I found it
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Ecmbuster
Posts: 1303
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:08 am
Vehicle: Volvo Bertone and two Motorcyles
Location: On a spinning rock

Re: PATS 2008 Ford Escape

Post by Ecmbuster »

Now I see the FORScan version you're using.
Edit the As-Built and write it. Cycle the key once, back to ON.

Last test. With a decent power supply on the battery, leave the key ON.
Let the controllers have a party for 24hrs. Put a towel over the dash to "keep the prying eyes away".
Lock all the doors and test the remaining key on the drivers door lock first before closing the door.
If that works and the doors can be opened mechanically, lock them and walk away.
Do not ask for help in PM. Use the forum to ask and answer questions!
sleepycowboy87
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:11 pm
Vehicle: Escape, 3.0L., 2008
Location: Texas

Re: PATS 2008 Ford Escape

Post by sleepycowboy87 »

Will do. I don't have to lock car. I live in the country far from anyone and have a dog. I thought I was going to have to download the data file. But I will do as told for once.
sleepycowboy87
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:11 pm
Vehicle: Escape, 3.0L., 2008
Location: Texas

Re: PATS 2008 Ford Escape

Post by sleepycowboy87 »

Maybe not. The car unlocks itself. Believe it's IC config has autolock auto unlock enabled. I thought I had them turned off. You didn't say if I could exit FORScan or leave it on and hooked up. There is a % that shows zero by procedure started. And if it was through I could navigate to other menu options. I'll unhook it for tonight. Laptop isn't connected to charger it will expire anyway. If I need to try it different (I can get another extension cord and run thru window but I still think laptop will shutdown anyway if inactive). Or if I need to download data file. But then I'd need a subscription to OASIS or something.
Attachments
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