ms-can vs scp

Any issues related to FORScan application
phnorris
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:39 pm
Vehicle: 2007 Lincoln Town Car Signature Ltd4.6l Flex-Fuel

ms-can vs scp

Post by phnorris » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:22 am

Hi all, I'm new to this forum as well as to forscan. I have a 2007 Lincoln Town car and I can't read any modules on the ms-can bus.

In looking on the internet I see that ms-can is connected to pins 3 and 11 of the data link connector. On my Lincoln (I have genuine Ford service literature) pins 3 and 11 are not used and pins 2 and 10 are called scp + and - and are the modules I need do connect to.

Question 1 are scp and ms-can the same??
Question 2 can I jumper pins 2 and 3 and pins 10 and 11 to pick up the scp bus.

I'm running an els27 adapter which responds STN1170 v3.3.1. (ELM327 v1.3a)

tractmec
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 11:43 pm
Vehicle: Ford F150 5.4 Triton 2005 Expedition 5.4 2003

Re: ms-can vs scp

Post by tractmec » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:52 pm

Hello phnorris

Short answer to your first Question No!

To your second question only if you are ready to replace your PCM and reprogram it and likely several other modules as well!!!

Now to be a little less dramatic, MSCAN was not used on most fords until 2008- 2009 and if your Lincoln had a pin 3 it would have been for the UBP protocol which only reads on Fords VCM2 and its Chinese Clones in Forscan

If your ELS27 is reading any thing in PWM, for the PCM Instrument Cluster, Low Tire Pressure and ABS or ISO , 9141 for the Restraints control module check there for the modules you are looking for as that is what my 2003 Expedition reads in Forscan.

Hope this is of some help?

phnorris
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:39 pm
Vehicle: 2007 Lincoln Town Car Signature Ltd4.6l Flex-Fuel

Re: ms-can vs scp

Post by phnorris » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:02 pm

Hi Tractmec, thanks for your prompt response. What pins on the OBD2 connector does FORScan use to pick up the scp data? And, what adapter, if you know, uses pins 2 and 10 to pick up the scp-/pwm data.

If I'm being a pest, please let me know.

I have a nice running 2007 lincoln town car but I can't move the driver's seat, the rear view mirrors, use the inside trunk release, or use the remote fob all functions which use this scp data bus. If I have to do this myself, I will but any help I can get will help a lot.

Thanks

Harold

tractmec
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 11:43 pm
Vehicle: Ford F150 5.4 Triton 2005 Expedition 5.4 2003

Re: ms-can vs scp

Post by tractmec » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:25 pm

Hello Again Harold

First off I have to clarify my statement of the dates MSCAN was used. It began phase in in 2004 and was fully impemented in 2009-2010.

As to your pin assignment question, Pin 2+ and Pin 10- in the DLC connector are for J1850/PWM/FordSCP (all these describe the same thing, confusing is it not?) protocols and all adapters must read data from those two pins in order to gain a connection to the any of the data buses.

I will refer you to a guide at this link (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6142) for a very good description and discussion of ELM327 based adapters.

Also since you wrote that you have an ELS27 Adapter you might be interested in the discussion at this link (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1904) especially if you are not reading anything on the PWMJ1850SCP bus at all.

I am hoping you have access to the 2007 Lincoln wiring diagrams as with all those functions inoperative you may have and more than likely have more going on than data bus communication problems!

phnorris
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:39 pm
Vehicle: 2007 Lincoln Town Car Signature Ltd4.6l Flex-Fuel

Re: ms-can vs scp

Post by phnorris » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:04 pm

Hi Tractmec,

Thanks a lot. With an oscilloscope, I can see a signal on pin 2 of the obdii connector and an inverted signal on pin 10. Using pin 10 as "ground" for the 'scope, and pin 2 as the "signal" , I can see an 8 v p-p signal. So, in some form there is data on the scp bus.

The second link showed me what I was wondering about. A bad adapter. I paid about $40.00 for to he adapter AND a CD with FORScan and FOCCCUS software on it. Guess I got screwed (again).

I just ordered a replacement adapter, an elm327 this time. I don't much care about the ms-bus compatability as I don't have one. Maybe I'll get lucky this time.

Thanks for all your help. I'll post the results when I use this new adapter.

tractmec
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 11:43 pm
Vehicle: Ford F150 5.4 Triton 2005 Expedition 5.4 2003

Re: ms-can vs scp

Post by tractmec » Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:10 pm

Hi Harold

When you first posted I suspected you had one of the bad China clones or a bad one of the ELS27 adapter. I tried to order one from the Russian site but never got a response and because I have two vehicles with a pin 3 and no pin 11 which means UBP protocol modules, I opted for a Good quality China clone of a VCM2 and so far have not been disappointed!

As long as you do not have a pin three in your DLC then a good ELM327 should be all you will need. There is a good discussion in the Adapters thread on optimizing these for speed and programing performance.

phnorris
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:39 pm
Vehicle: 2007 Lincoln Town Car Signature Ltd4.6l Flex-Fuel

Re: ms-can vs scp

Post by phnorris » Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:45 pm

Hi Tractmec,

I have a pin 3 but the Ford diagram, which is on Ford's DVD says not used. There is no pin 11. I'll check for a signal or voltage on pin 3 before I go too far.

I was beginning to suspect a problem like that or maybe a defective adapter. You have convinced me that I have unwittingly purchased a bad Chinese clone. Too bad they can't get banned from eBay.

Thanks for all your help. I hope that s oon I can get my problems resolved.

I have already replaced the driver's door module and picked up several functions that didn't work before (interior lights, radio shutting off when the door is opened). I have a driver's seat module that I think is causing me problems. Time will tell but if I can't read the data it will take me a lot longer.

tractmec
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 11:43 pm
Vehicle: Ford F150 5.4 Triton 2005 Expedition 5.4 2003

Re: ms-can vs scp

Post by tractmec » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:17 am

Hi Harold

If your Ford DVD Has the diagrams for the computer data lines it should show any UBP bus modules connected to pin 3. you should be able to check for signal between pin 3 and pin 4 which is signal ground and/or 5 which is chassis ground and if you get signal then pin 3 is monitoring something! Unfortunately if there is anything on that bus an ELM327 Adapter even with a switch will not read it. Forscan tells me that they will keep looking for a solution to that problem on ELM adapters but for now it can only be done in Forscan with VCM2.

If no signal you should be golden.

My 05 F150 has only the VSM (vehicle security module) (may be called body control or GEM in the cars) on the UBP bus and that is where the door locks and door switches are monitored.

If Ford says not used then it may still be there but not connected to any thing. Seems strange though if the actual contact is still in the DLC connector as Ford usually removes the connector if its not to be used? It may also be a revision from a later edition and yours is early.

in my 03 Expedition the PAM(Parking Aid Module) is on the ISO bus in Forscan and the Ford Diagram book for the 03 Expedition/Navigator shows it on the UBP bus. Mistake or I have a later revision than the book? All of the seat modules are on the UBP bus also in the Expedition.

Afraid I am not familiar with how it was done in the Lincoln cars however.
Last edited by tractmec on Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

phnorris
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:39 pm
Vehicle: 2007 Lincoln Town Car Signature Ltd4.6l Flex-Fuel

Re: ms-can vs scp

Post by phnorris » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:48 am

Hi Tractmec,

In my diagrams, I have the vdm, abs, pcm, and part of the ic are on the hs-can bus. The rcm, ltm, and pam are on the iso bus. And the ratc, ddm, dsm, nm, lcm, HVAC module, datc, and the rest of the ic are on the scp bus.

I suppose it's possible that when I get a good adapter, what I see is not what I have.

I'll check for a signal between pins 3 and 4 and let you know. I'm not sure if I will have time tomorrow or not.

Thanks for your help and suggestions.

Harold

phnorris
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:39 pm
Vehicle: 2007 Lincoln Town Car Signature Ltd4.6l Flex-Fuel

Re: ms-can vs scp

Post by phnorris » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:11 am

Hi Tractmec,

I checked out pin 3 of the connector to ground with my digital o'scope and found no signal and no dc offset.

I guess I'm safe.

Thanks for your help and suggestions

Harold

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