focus MK2 swap cluster doubts

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lordrafa
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:26 pm
Vehicle: Focus mk2 2006 Hatchback

focus MK2 swap cluster doubts

Post by lordrafa »

Hi everyone,

My focus mk2 instrument cluster its not working properly and I need to replace it. I have being reading a few about how to do this but there are a couple of thing that I still don't have clear.

Is there any way to fit a diesel cluster in a petrol car?

What are the pats keys, why I need to find a web page to convert them.

Do I need to do anything special with the keys transponder, or just installing the pats from the old ic on to the new one would be enough
Ecmbuster
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Re: focus MK2 swap cluster doubts

Post by Ecmbuster »

lordrafa wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:12 am
Hi everyone,

My focus mk2 instrument cluster its not working properly and I need to replace it. I have being reading a few about how to do this but there are a couple of thing that I still don't have clear.

Is there any way to fit a diesel cluster in a petrol car?

What are the pats keys, why I need to find a web page to convert them.

Do I need to do anything special with the keys transponder, or just installing the pats from the old ic on to the new one would be enough
The diesel and petrol do not match. Find a direct replacement with the make model and year. Find the part number for it.
There have been occasions where very good repair shops can repair the defective IC because of poor connections and cold solder joints.
There is NO conversion for PATS, keep your original keys and you will need two of them for initial programming.
Try to have your IC repaired or work hard to reconfigure a used version and program the keys with a new strategy.
Do not ask for help in PM. Use the forum to ask and answer questions!
davetcollection
Posts: 81
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:00 pm
Vehicle: Focus '17 ST-Line 1.0 Auto, Focus 4 1.5D Titanium

Re: focus MK2 swap cluster doubts

Post by davetcollection »

As mentioned, get your cluster repaired. We had my brother-in-law's done about 12 months ago and it's been fine ever since.
Don't try and repair it yourself, send it away and get a proper job done and it'll be OK.
I'm guessing you're from UK? If so there's plenty of people on Ebay offering the service for about £60+
lordrafa
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:26 pm
Vehicle: Focus mk2 2006 Hatchback

Re: focus MK2 swap cluster doubts

Post by lordrafa »

Ecmbuster wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:55 am
lordrafa wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:12 am
Hi everyone,

My focus mk2 instrument cluster its not working properly and I need to replace it. I have being reading a few about how to do this but there are a couple of thing that I still don't have clear.

Is there any way to fit a diesel cluster in a petrol car?

What are the pats keys, why I need to find a web page to convert them.

Do I need to do anything special with the keys transponder, or just installing the pats from the old ic on to the new one would be enough
The diesel and petrol do not match. Find a direct replacement with the make model and year. Find the part number for it.
There have been occasions where very good repair shops can repair the defective IC because of poor connections and cold solder joints.
There is NO conversion for PATS, keep your original keys and you will need two of them for initial programming.
Try to have your IC repaired or work hard to reconfigure a used version and program the keys with a new strategy.
Hi thanks for the replies, actually I enjoy working on electronics and mechanics and I found this opportunity as a good chance to learn a little bit more about my car.

I was asking about the Diesel version because unfortunately I already ordered one before I find out that they were not compatible.... I suppose that I will need to order a petrol one I keep the Diesel one to have fun... Perhaps this question is silly but what makes them different? do they have a different MCU would be possible to just swap the whole eeproms?

About the cold solder is something that I discarded because I thought that that would not be remotely possible to really happen but perhaps it is worth to check it.

About the PATs, what are they exactly? are they encryption keys, or some code that match the code on my physical key transponder?

(unfortunately in English the word keys can be physical or software that is why each time that I read Keys my mind only thinks on encryption keys, rather than actually the car keys)
lordrafa
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:26 pm
Vehicle: Focus mk2 2006 Hatchback

Re: focus MK2 swap cluster doubts

Post by lordrafa »

Hello,

I'm being reading a little bit more about my focus electronics, the modules that it has and more or less what forscan can and cannot do however there is something that I still missing.

A a diesel cluster looks pretty much the same to me than a petrol one, speaking about the PCB.

The only thing that could made them incompatible is the firmware (which I suppose inside of the MCU) or perhaps some config from the eeprom. Read the eeprom from my original IPC and write on the the new one it on should be "trivial", hence I suppose that the real issue is with the MCU...

Is there any way to read the firmware inside a Gasoline IPC MCU and write it to a Diesel IPC MCU?

I was reading that perhaps this can be done with an UPA programmer but I am quite shocked that actually you can read a firmware from an MCU, since normally production MCUs prevents you to do so.

About my original problem I already solved, I just resoldered the connectors pins (as it was suggested) and the car started to work perfectly, no swap was need but since I have now a diessel IPC that is worth for nothing to me, I would use it to experiment a little bit....
Don Ridley
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Re: focus MK2 swap cluster doubts

Post by Don Ridley »

Yes, you can update the firmware in the IPC. It is not easy if you aren't already an expert in EEPROMS.


https://www.focusfanatics.com/threads/2 ... us.674033/
Ecmbuster
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Location: On a spinning rock

Re: focus MK2 swap cluster doubts

Post by Ecmbuster »

The UPA programmer is a decent programmer but depending on the MCU, it may need to be removed and soldered to a daughter board.
That board it then placed inside the UPA for flash programming. Swapping one to the other means saving the data from each seperately.
The problem with modern MCU's is that they can be security locked.
In other cases, one or more MCU legs need to be lifted and the chrystal shorted. Then the programming wires are attached to the MCU.
Once attached, programming may begin and again, depends on the security bits.
Other MCU tool versions can have a matching block with internal legs to press onto the MCU to read or write.
This type of programming does not require a PCM

The problem with Ford flash programming is that it will require the PCM because of the VIN that's needed.
One way or another, the VIN becomes the description of the flash requirement.
If the IC is of interest for programming because of experiments, it needs to be attached to something that holds the VIN.
If the flash doesn't match the requirements of the PCM, you end up with multiple faults.

That's why a test bench can be created with an active network.
The active network can be a PCM, IC, Airbag controller, 4x4 controller etc with a power supply and a DLC.
Do not ask for help in PM. Use the forum to ask and answer questions!
lordrafa
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:26 pm
Vehicle: Focus mk2 2006 Hatchback

Re: focus MK2 swap cluster doubts

Post by lordrafa »

Hi thanks for all this info I start to understand much better how the car electronics works.

So actually this UPA programmer is just like any other multimicro programer, if the micro security allows it to read/writre the contents in flash then the programmer would be able to do so, otherwise no. No dark magic tampering the micros security bits then, right?

Actually I have dissembled the IPC and couldn't find any eeprom, so I suppose that all the storage is inside the MCU internal storage, which I suppose that has enabled the security bits to prevent people from dumping it, otherwise creating IPC clones will be trivial...

As I said previously, my aim was to try to dump the firmware inside my current IPC (gasoline) and then write that dump on my new IPC (Diesel), creating an exact clone. However if I have understand correctly, you cannot do that using UPA because the MCU memory is more than probably protected against reads using BDM.

I am right to assume that the other method that you mention (Ford flash programming), the one that requires the PCM in the network, uses the CAN bus? If so can you use this method to dump the whole MCU memory (program and data)? note that I don't have any problem with this, if this is something that can be done, I could just connect my ODBII adapter to my car dump the current IPC (gasoline) MCU memory and use UPA to write this dump on to the other IPC (diesel), then the diesel one would become a perfect clone.
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